Former White House Counsel Kathy Ruemmler has told congressional investigators that she deeply regrets her association with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, saying she would never have interacted with him had she known the full extent of his crimes.
Ruemmler made the remarks during a voluntary closed-door interview with the Republican-led House Oversight Committee, which is continuing its investigation into Epstein’s network of associates and advisers.
According to opening remarks obtained by CNN, Ruemmler acknowledged that meeting Epstein was a mistake.
She said that if she had understood “who Epstein really was,” she would never have agreed to meet him, adding that she now regrets having any dealings with him. Ruemmler also argued that many people wrongly assume anyone who interacted with Epstein before his 2019 arrest knew the full extent of his criminal behavior.
The former Obama administration official said Epstein was never her client, although she acknowledged that he occasionally sought her legal advice after she left government service.
“Even though I wasn’t his lawyer, he sought my advice from time to time,” she said, describing their interactions as informal and maintaining that she never formally represented him.
Ruemmler told investigators she first met Epstein in 2014, several years after his 2008 guilty plea on charges related to soliciting prostitution involving a minor.
According to her testimony, Epstein portrayed his criminal conduct as involving women he believed were adults and claimed he had been unaware that some victims were under the age of consent. Ruemmler said he expressed remorse and embarrassment over his conviction, adding that she accepted those explanations at the time.
She stressed that she never excused or endorsed Epstein’s criminal conduct and said her legal practice routinely involved interacting with controversial individuals facing criminal investigations or reputational issues.
Ruemmler also described Epstein as a “masterful liar” and said she never witnessed evidence suggesting he was continuing to abuse women or girls after she met him.
She stated that had she become aware of any ongoing criminal behavior, she would have immediately reported it to law enforcement authorities.
The House Oversight Committee called Ruemmler as part of its broader investigation following renewed scrutiny of Epstein’s relationships after the release of millions of pages of Justice Department documents.
CNN previously reported that Ruemmler was among a small circle of advisers who communicated with Epstein during the final years of his life, including discussions related to legal matters and reputational challenges.
House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer said investigators are examining the extent of Ruemmler’s involvement and whether her advice may have helped Epstein repair his public image after his criminal conviction.
Committee ranking member Representative Robert Garcia also described Ruemmler’s continued contact with Epstein as significant, arguing that lawmakers are seeking a complete understanding of their relationship regardless of political affiliation.
As the interview continued, Garcia questioned whether Ruemmler was being fully candid with investigators and criticized the committee for allowing her to testify voluntarily without placing her under oath.
Although Ruemmler was not sworn in because she appeared voluntarily, congressional investigators reminded her that knowingly making false statements to Congress could still result in criminal prosecution.
The renewed attention follows the Justice Department’s release of extensive Epstein-related records earlier this year, including hundreds of emails exchanged between Ruemmler and Epstein.
The correspondence included discussions about lawsuits filed by Epstein’s accusers, media strategy, and other legal matters. Some messages also reflected a more personal friendship, with Ruemmler thanking Epstein for his friendship, discussing aspects of her personal life, and exchanging friendly sign-offs.
Addressing those communications, Ruemmler said many emails had been interpreted without proper context. Nevertheless, she acknowledged that, with what is now known about Epstein, she wishes she had never communicated with him.
She also addressed gifts Epstein gave her, saying they were unsolicited, of little personal importance, and did not influence how she dealt with him. She noted that she declined some gifts and maintained that none affected her professional judgment.
Previously released Justice Department records also showed Ruemmler advising Epstein on litigation brought by alleged victims and helping coordinate responses to media inquiries. Emails also revealed discussions about a possible visit to Epstein’s private island in the Caribbean, although a Goldman Sachs spokesperson has stated that Ruemmler never traveled there.
Ruemmler left the Obama White House in 2014 before joining law firm Latham & Watkins, where she led its white-collar defense practice. The firm has said Epstein was never a client. She later joined Goldman Sachs in 2020, eventually becoming the bank’s chief legal officer.
Earlier this year, Ruemmler announced she would step down from Goldman Sachs amid growing scrutiny following the release of the Epstein documents.
Her appearance before the House Oversight Committee marks the 18th witness interview conducted as part of Congress’ ongoing investigation into Epstein and the network of individuals who maintained professional or personal relationships with the disgraced financier.
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